This was the argument about Fury Road (mostly real) vs Furiosa (a lot of CGI.)
But only bad CGI is visible. I guarantee you have watched CGI footage and not noticed. At all.
The problem over the last decade or so hasn't been the technical limits of CGI, but studio unwillingness to spend enough on it to make it good.
And directors have also become less creative. You can find UK newsreels from the 50s on YouTube, and some of the direction and editing are superb - a beautiful mix of abstraction, framing, and narrative.
Most modern directors don't have that kind of visual literacy. The emphasis is more on spectacle and trying to bludgeon audiences into submission, not on tastefulness and visual craft.
This was the argument about Fury Road (mostly real)
Fury Road is pure wall to wall CGI. People keep pointing to it as some example of doing things with live action when the entire movie is soaked with CG and compositing.
It's a lot of CGI, but done in realistic ways. A lot of the examples from the article (which is a very good article, thank you for linking it) were mostly about paint-outs, color grading, or background elements.
There's a good chunk of modern blockbusters that will CGI everything in a scene except the lead actor's face - and sometimes that too.
Predates computers, they used to paint out wires and whatnot by hand and it usually looked just as good.
> Compositing
Predates computers. They've been doing it since forever with miniature overlays, matte paintings, chromakey, double exposures, and cutting up film negatives with exacto blades.
> color grading
Literal cancer which ruins movies every goddamn time. The fact that they shoot movies with this kind of manipulation in mind changes how they use lighting and makes everything flat with no shadows, no depth, everything now gets shot like a soap opera. This also applies to heavy use of compositing too. To make it cheaper to abuse compositing, mostly so the producers can "design by committee" the movie after all the filming is done, they've destroyed how they light and shoot scenes. Everything is close up on actors, blurred backgrounds, flat lighting, fast cuts to hide the lazy work. Cancer.
I'm talking about Fury Road too BTW. It's crap. Watch the original Mad Max, not Road Warrior, then watch Fury Road. The first is a real movie with heart and soul, the world it depicts feels real. The latter feels like a video game, except it somehow comes out looking even less inspired and creative than the actual mad max video game that came out at the same time.
But yeah, they made some real weird cars for the movie. That's fine I guess. The first movie didn't need weird cars, it had this thing called characters. Characters who felt like real people, not freaks from a comic book.
Exactly - they've been doing paint outs and composite shots forever! It doesn't feel fundamentally different to do it "on a computer," to me. They aren't using it to show off, just to make the scene look how you'd expect it to.
They've also been doing color grading forever - digital just makes it way cheaper and easier. Before, you'd have to do photochemical tricks to the film, and you would use different film for different vibes.
I'd argue that the ease of digital manipulation has led some studios to do what you say - postpone creativity until after the movie is mostly shot, which leads to that design-by-committee feeling. That sense of 'don't worry, we'll fix the lighting it the editing room' is the same sloppiness as 'and then the big gorilla will use his magic attack and it will look really cool,' without any thought given to it's actually going to look like. But that's not really a failure of CGI itself - that's a failure of vision, right? If you procrastinate making artistic decisioms for long enough, there's not actually going to be any art in the movie once it's done.
I have watched the original Mad Max, and it was pretty alright. If I had watched it at the right age, I probably would have imprinted on it.
It used to be the case that movies had to be made carefully, with the intended look in mind when they were shooting it. Compositing, etc aren't new, as we both know, but the way they're used has changed; they're used far more than ever before, with important design decisions about the look of the movie deferred to the very last minute ans everything up to that point done in such a way to facilitate making late last minute changes. This is absolute poison for cinematography as an art. Very few big budget movies made in recent years has any artistic merit for this reason. Producers now feel like they have the technology to make all the decisions that, by technical and logistic necessity, the directors/cinematographers would have to make themselves years ago. And the producers are just assholes with money, they cannot make art.
With respect to Mad Max, I think it aged like a fine wine. I didn't first see it when I was young, I saw Road Warrior first. But Road Warrior and everything after it is very camp. Mad Max is more grounded and feels like a commentary on our times, not pure fantasy spectacle. I think the best time to watch Mad Max was the 70s, and the second best time is probably today. In the 90s or 00s it wouldn't have hit right.
I'd argue that the ease of digital manipulation has led some studios to do what you say - postpone creativity until after the movie is mostly shot,
None of this is true. You can't shoot plates and do whatever you want later. Even basic effects shots take intricate planning. They were talking about cleaning up mistakes and small details.
which leads to that design-by-committee feeling
I'm not sure what this means in the context of a movie but it isn't how movies are made.
There are art directors, production designers and vfx supervisors and they answer to the director. Movies are the opposite of design by committee. It isn't a bunch of people compromising, it is the director making decisions and approving every step.
that sense of 'don't worry, we'll fix the lighting it the editing room'
This doesn't happen because it isn't how anything works. You can fix lighting in editing.
the same sloppiness as 'and then the big gorilla will use his magic attack and it will look really cool,' without any thought given to it's actually going to look like.
Enormous thought and planning is given to every stage. This idea of not liking lots of effects in fantasy or comic book movies and then attributing that to sloppiness or apathy simply does not happen in big budget movies. There are multiple stages of gathering reference, art direction and early tests, many times before any photography is shot.
If you procrastinate making artistic decisioms for long enough, there's not actually going to be any art in the movie once it's done.
Not only does this not happen, it doesn't make sense. Just because you don't like something that doesn't mean huge amounts of work and planning didn't go into it.
The person I replied to said it was "mostly real". Lots of CG is done in realistic ways but people pick and choose what they decide is good based on the movies they already like. Fury Road has somehow become an example of "doing things for real" when the whole movie is non stop CG shots.
A lot of the examples from the article (which is a very good article, thank you for linking it) were mostly about paint-outs, color grading, or background elements.
No they weren't, there are CG landscapes, CG mountains, CG canyons, CG crowds, CG storms, CG cars, CG arm replacements and many entirely CG shots. It's the whole movie.
Are you suggesting it's not noticeable in those movies? I found it distracting several times in I think every one of those (maybe the least in 1917? And I haven't seen Ford vs. Ferrari, but I have all the rest). A few entire scenes or sequences in TG:M look awful, and it's usually the mundane ones that wouldn't even have been effects in a pre-CG movie, not the aircraft action stuff. Alien: Romulus looks fake practically the whole movie (that one didn't ruin it for me or anything, but it had an effect like the Riddick movies, of being obviously mostly a cartoon, though of course not as awful about it as those were).
Well, I guess it wasn't exactly distracting in Barbie because that's practically a marionette movie a la Thunderbirds, so it's not really trying not to look off.
> Are you suggesting it's not noticeable in those movies
You can check the youtube link I posted. You'd be hard pressed to notice the good CGI in those movies.
> I found it distracting several times in I think every one of those
Honestly, I really doubt you noticed that much CGI. Well, unless you go in already primed to discount everything as CGI (whether or not it's actually CGI).
So you would categorize these as "incitements to violence"?
The recent arrest at London’s Heathrow airport of a noted Irish comedian, Graham Linehan, for the “crime” of three politically incorrect tweets
A few months ago, police arrested a couple for messages shared in a WhatsApp chat group as six officers searched their home.
Authorities arrested a grandmother for silently holding a sign outside an abortion clinic that said “Coercion is a crime, here to talk, if you want.”
The wife of a conservative politician was sentenced to 31 months in prison for what police said was an unacceptable post. In contrast, a child molester was sentenced to 21 months in the slammer.
And yet, something worse is happening that is being swept under the rug:
A glaring example of this “wokeness” was exposed earlier this year by Elon Musk when he put the spotlight on how British authorities have for years turned a blind eye to notorious rape gangs made up primarily of Pakistani Muslim men who prey on vulnerable young girls. Musk was pilloried by the woke crowd for making this an issue. If not for his prominence, he most certainly would have been prosecuted. Thanks to Musk’s pressure, however, the British prime minister finally reversed course and ordered a probe. An extensive investigation has already found the scandal to be uglier and more widespread than previously supposed.
The 31 months was for literally inciting a mob to burn down a building with asylum seekers inside, in the middle of a riot. Yes, from the Internet rather than in person, and she's now very vigorous in claiming she didn't intend anyone to actually do it. But yeah. Likely criminal even in the US under the "imminent lawless action" exception.
Musk had bugger all to do with the rape gangs scandal, which broke literally years ago, and has been brought up with regularity by the newspapers here since. (For what it's worth there have also been plenty of non-Pakistani groups doing similar things and getting away with it. The main problem seems to be that no one in authority misses, or listens to, dropout teenage girls who have fallen off the radar - which makes them easy pickings for nonces.)
I don't know about the others. The sign holder was likely within the 150m buffer zone put around abortion clinics last year, though. Given the content of the sign (which just steps over the letter of the statutory prohibition not to influence patients' decisions while being entirely morally unobjectionable) I suspect it was a deliberate setup for arrest for outrage, just like the Palestine Action people. But I could be wrong.
It's perhaps also worth noting that Britain's traditions of free speech have never been as absolutist as the US (the last successful prosecution for blasphemous libel was as recent as the 70s and it's still technically a crime to advocate for a republic) but that raucous objections to government have very rarely been the target in recent centuries. The major difference in practice is that being grossly offensive isn't constitutionally protected. You're still not likely to get done for it, though.
Less of the "not liking" and more of an "are an existential threat to."
This isn't high school. This is about real people having real experiences of fear, stress, violence, and horror facilitated by deliberate cultural engineering.
If the very talented and smart people don't get that, that's a them problem.
I find ChatGPT excellent for writing scripts in obscure scripting languages - AppleScript, Adobe Cloud products, IntelliJ plugin development, LibreOffice, and others.
All of these have a non-trivial learning curve and/or poor and patchy docs.
I could master all of these the hard way, but it would be a huge and not very productive time sink. It's much easier to tell a machine what I want and iterate with error reports if it doesn't solve my problem immediately.
So is this AGI? It's not self-training. But it is smart enough to search docs and examples and pull them together into code that solves a problem. It clearly "knows" far more than I do in this particular domain, and works much faster.
So I am very clearly getting real value from it. And there's a multiplier effect, because it's now possible to imagine automating processes that weren't possible before, and glue together custom franken-workflows that link supposedly incompatible systems and save huge amounts of time.
It hints there may be common higher-level abstraction and compression processes in human consciousness.
The "human" part of that matters. This is all human-made data, collected from human technology, which was created to assist human thinking and experience.
So I wonder if this isn't so much about universals or Platonic ideals. More that we're starting to see the outlines of the shapes that define - perhaps constrict - our own minds.
The quality and usefulness of the service across different domains, the way it's being rolled out by management, the strategy of building many data centres when this makes questionable sense, the broader social and psychological effects, the stock market precarity around it, the support among LLMs for open source code and weights, and the applicability of the word "intelligence" are all different questions.
This reads like more a petulant rant than a cogent and insightful analysis of those issues.
Owning bit-perfect rips of your favourite music is a sweet spot. I have no interest in tape - of any kind - or vinyl.
The one frustration is that continuous FLAC playback appears to be an arcane programming challenge that only a select few developers have mastered. Especially on mobile.
And unless you set up a server the business of getting files onto and off devices is insanely perverse.
But in terms of sound quality and convenience, lossless rips win over anything else.
Going back to physical seems almost pointlessly decadent.
But a lot of is also in blogs and (video) tutorials. As well as Stack Overflow.
And all very searchable.
The old brick-of-paper approach to tech manuals just isn't a thing any more. I don't particularly miss it.
It was, if you think about, usually a slow and inefficient way to present information - often better at presenting what was possible than how to do make it happen.
> often better at presenting what was possible than how to do make it happen.
that, i feel, is the chilling aspect to this situation. does the lack of new books explaining what's possible, imply that our society's opportunites for growth are dwindling?
But only bad CGI is visible. I guarantee you have watched CGI footage and not noticed. At all.
The problem over the last decade or so hasn't been the technical limits of CGI, but studio unwillingness to spend enough on it to make it good.
And directors have also become less creative. You can find UK newsreels from the 50s on YouTube, and some of the direction and editing are superb - a beautiful mix of abstraction, framing, and narrative.
Most modern directors don't have that kind of visual literacy. The emphasis is more on spectacle and trying to bludgeon audiences into submission, not on tastefulness and visual craft.
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