So the trans community stands with Keffals, a documented child groomer and provider of puberty blockers + hormones to minors behind their parents' backs?
Promoter (again, to children) of sketchy Internet pharmacies that sell hormones with anime lolita box art and labels that say “keep away from parents”?
The trans community stands against doxxing, harassing, swatting, and stalking one of their own because of her gender identity and activist activities. Because they know, in cisnormative society, they'll be next. Of course, Kiwi Farms does not condone that sort of behavior (wink wink, nudge nudge). Once Kiwi Farms is down for good, I'm sure there will be Twitter bickerfests and slapfights about this and other issues (apparently Keffals is racist too?), but as long as Kiwi Farms is around, it is a direct existential threat to trans people and the community will be pretty united in making sure it is not allowed to operate on the public internet.
Over the past week I’ve read enough on and about Kiwi Farms to conclude that while “doxing” does happen there, as it does on Twitter and other websites, the claims of harassment and SWATing and users driving people to suicide are highly and cynically exaggerated. The evidence simply doesn’t support these claims, particularly the suicides:
The main issue seems to be that Kiwi Farms documents the actual, public behavior of many disgusting, pedophilic, embarrassing people on the Internet, some of whom are trans. Some of the people they document and laugh at are also neo-Nazis or alt-right. Some of the Kiwi Farms users are trans.
The willingness of many in news media and at companies like Cloudflare to take these claims of SWATing and harassment at face value with next to no evidence, or in the face of obvious sock-puppet posts to Kiwi Farms that are instantly removed by moderators, has been disheartening. It reminds me how r/againsthatesubreddit mods posted CASM to conservative subreddits to get them banned by site admins. I increasingly understand that the opponents of Kiwi Farms use the exact same tactics they project onto the site: doxing and SWATing Joshua Moon, harassing him and Kiwi Farms, spreading false information about the site’s content and activities. Their goal seems to be wiping evidence of child grooming, illegal drug distribution to minors, and other very bad and embarrassing behavior by their community from the web. They may succeed.
I hope reasonable members of the trans community can distance themselves sufficiently from these unstable activists. I hope people like Keffals have their unsavory activities documented and shared with a wider audience. I hope this mob of unscrupulous activists doesn’t succeed in controlling all speech on the Internet.
>Of course, but I think a threat to kill someone with a bomb is unambiguously threatening and intimidating
The "bomb threat" was posted by a recently-created and otherwise inactive account, immediately flagged by multiple users, and deleted by a moderator within minutes. The user who posted it was immediately banned. It was also clearly unserious.
He has already been swatted multiple times. In the past trans activists have shown up at his house with weapons, looking for him. Keffals doxed his mom on Twitter a few days ago, posting her full face photo and calling for her firing while lying about her links (there are none) to her son's website:
In terms of SWATing, harassment, and "driving people to suicide" this is a false impression, one that is intentionally spread by the site's detractors. SWATing and harassment is strictly banned on Kiwi Farms. The site owner aggressively removes such posts and cooperates with law enforcement.
The leader of the campaign to take down Kiwi Farms is Keffals, a transsexual Twitch streamer with a large underage audience. Kiwi Farms has documented Keffals’ sexualized interactions with underage members of her community, as well as her history in porn and online interactions with several open pedophiles. Some believe this is why she wants the site nuked.
See archived copy of the Kiwi Farms thread for documentation of Keffals' encouragement of doxing and SWATing, sexual grooming of minors on the “Catboy Ranch” Discord server, and her website which instructs minors on how to secretly obtain and self-dose cross-sex hormones behind parents’ backs:
The sketchy online pharmacy Keffals’ DIY HRT Directory promotes sells cross-sex hormones marketed to children, with holofoil anime lolita box art and labels that say “keep away from parents”:
The medical consequences of a confused child self-dosing puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones outside parental and medical supervision can be sterilizing, irreversible, and lifelong. Keffals promotes the DIY HRT Directory on Twitter and Twitch to a huge audience of underaged viewers.
None of these details about Keffals were mentioned in WaPo or NBC accounts of this story. It is incredibly dismaying to see Keffals doing this to children, well-documented and for the most part out in the open, and realize that no one in the news media cares.
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EDIT: In response to a comment below...
KF's owner refused the New Zealand's government command to remove Brenton Tarrant's manifesto and shooting video. This demand was not backed up by American law. He cooperates with law enforcement requests for information on criminal threats and illegal material posted to Kiwi Farms.
> There is no independent verification of those claims against Keffals
What would independent verification look like? I browsed the archived thread and it seems like the vast majority of claims have accompanying Twitter and archive links.
> (a) There is no independent verification of those claims against Keffals
There absolutely is. The DIY HRT Directory website is live right now, as are Keffals' tweets and Twitch clips promoting it. The sexual tweets directed at minors are archived on archive.ph, as are Keffals' doxing of the KF owner's mom and Keffal's calls for SWAting and doxing. The "Catboy Ranch" screenshots and Kiwi Farms investigation prompted Keffals to wipe the server. It's impossible to save Discord content on third-party archival services, but tweets between Discord users from that period buttress the allegations.
Got five kids. If any of them were trans, I'd support them connecting with whatever community they could find. Some people were born into the wrong body and most kids know it immediately. The dysphoria can happen early. I'm sure there are some kids that make mistakes and try hormone therapy because they think it will make them feel better. The list of reasons they might do this are long and many are related to abuse or depression.
How about we stop labeling people pedophiles and support people (even kids) finding their truth.
I'd also firmly believe all transgender adults would be _horrified_ by any type of abuse. You're going to find an outlier in there as with any statistic. But like 99.9999% of all transgender adults come from a position of empathy and support. To assume otherwise is you just pushing your idea of morality on other people.
Of course if you simply refuse to believe in the idea that someone could be gay or bi or trans (and be certain of it at a young age), that's an entirely different conversation. Kids know who they are. We're supposed to guide them. Not oppress them.
I'm on mobile but almost every point you made is either a lie or a massive exaggeration.
Transitioning requires a massive amount of support and steps and children are NOT being rushed into irreversible medical procedures. This is a scare mongering tactic of the alt-right and has no bearing on reality.
> Here is the UK National Health Service's Cass Review:
Not NHS. It's not a great sign of accuracy if you're getting this wrong.
And the Cass review calls for an expansion of provision of gender affirming care for children, which is why we're moving from a single clinic to multiple clinics.
It shut Tavistock, highlighted diagnostic overshadowing of co-morbind conditions such as abuse, trauma, and autism, found gross evidentiary gaps in the medical arguments for puberty blockers and youth HRT, and recommended the curtailment of medical youth transition. The move to multiple clinics is one part trans activists highlight while ignoring the rest.
The study is an independent report. The Royal Colleges are not part of the NHS.
> It shut Tavistock
All the anti-trans activists think this is some brilliant "gotcha" moment, but they don't appear to know that most trans people hated Tavistock and were calling for services to be removed from Tavi.
Cass isn't doing what anti-trans campaigners wanted, she's doing what trans people want remove services from Tavi, and create a bunch of new centres across England. Access is going to be greatly increased.
Keep spinning it how you like, this is an unambiguous win for trans people and their allies.
Wait, the owner of the site explicitly doesn’t cooperate with law enforcement though?? I first heard of them because of the owner of the site insisted on hosting a video of a hate-based mass shooting against law enforcement requests.
I really doubt your claims here; you lie in your first paragraph.
He seems to explicitly cooperate with US law enforcement[0], what you're referring to is the new zealand government trying to get them not only to take down the chirstchurch shooting video but also give them the IP of everyone that posted it so they can prosecute them. The only jurisdiction that matters to him is the US, so i'd assume that's where the servers and the company is located.
He cooperates with the law in the country he resides and the site is hosted in. He told NZ to fuck off 'cause they had no say in whether or not he was allowed to host the video.
with US law enforcement, for actual criminal activity. null told the new zealand police to get lost when they ordered him to take down the video of the mosque shooting; rightly so.
SWATing and harassment is explicitly prohibited on Kiwi Farms, and the site owner aggressively removes such content. "Doxing" is for better or worse not a crime, and is practiced by the very same people currently crying for Kiwi Farms' deletion.
One side of a disagreement getting to write the relevant Wikipedia page has some trade-offs. On the one hand, the dominant side can cast the argument however they want. On the other hand, they can't really make it look like a fair or dispassionate accounting.
The fight over Kiwi Farms' Wikipedia page is intense. Keffals, a central figure to this story described in the second link above, is now quoting the Wikipedia page as fact because it quotes an NBC News story which quotes... Keffals. If you don't rely strictly on primary sources it's impossible to determine truth in this situation.
It's interesting to see posts simply pointing out the facts getting downvoted. Almost as if it's more important to pursue something out of ideological and emotional motivation, reality be damned.
Also, a very good demonstration of the plague rampaging through STEM circles. Driving blind might be fashionable, but it won't make a wall one is running into go away.
What they were doing was not a crime, as evidenced by every lawsuit against the site getting thrown out and the owner's extensive cooperation with law enforcement.
The line with "Kiwi Farms is responsible for 3 suicides" seems to be repeating that lie until it sticks. The truth is more complicated:
It got named because the alleged attacker called the police and said "it was me, Kiwi Farms user so-and-so." The user in question denied making this call and claimed they had been impersonated. This happened in the midst of the pressure campaign on Cloudflare, to a GOP House member known for jumping the gun who had no prior history with Kiwi Farms. If that's not extremely suspect I don't know what is.
Agreed it was just unrelated but it made news headlines then old history about keffals , them not helping the police with the Auckland shooter so they became "the baddies".
It simply made Cloudflare's position untenable - they are not piratebay but need customers.
https://archive.ph/HY4hK
Promoter (again, to children) of sketchy Internet pharmacies that sell hormones with anime lolita box art and labels that say “keep away from parents”?
https://archive.ph/zZMRp