Its not just a matter of 'not being rapey' - its a matter of agency over the sexual act.
If you get consent from your partner, have sex with them, and then your partner changes their mind about it afterwards - for any reason they determine under their own agency, what is to be done to avoid the danger of being falsely accused of not having gained consent, other than to simply abstain?
If consent can be retracted after the act, the act is not safe. So abstinence is the only answer.
And really, this shift towards abstinence is an appropriate social response.
"Change their mind" was never about changing mind afterwards. It's about "I don't like what you're doing, you should stop now" situation even if you were happy up to that point. You misunderstood the idea.
Or perhaps it is you who doesn't understand the word 'abstain'. If your partner changes mind mid-act, of course you stop - that is abstaining from further activity.
The point is, this is precisely the kind of confusion to avoid by maintaining abstinence as your primary mindset.
It is the only way to be sure: abstain at all costs, even if you were given consent, because that consent is not immutable.
No, I understand abstain and don't care about it in this context. I'm speaking out against the "change their mind after the fact" idea which gets brought up way too often as a possibility. It's disrespectful when discussing consent.
You responded to a message which mentioned changing one's mind in terms of continuous consent, not false rape accusations. These are different things. If you want to talk about false rape accusations, don't call it "change of mind".
"Change their mind after the fact" = you had consent, you no longer have it, stop what you're doing - i.e. abstain from further activity.
And that is the point - you're already in the danger zone if you've started and consent has been retracted. Better to just abstain entirely and not engage in sexual activity, at all, under those conditions.
No means no, always. To protect yourself from the "yes .. yes .. okay, no" dilemma .. just say no to casual, irresponsible sex - in the first place.
It is only way to be sure you won't get accused of assault, and even then, if you're not checking for continued consent every few milliseconds while engaged in the act, you're probably having very, very dangerous sex ... so just don't bother.
> To protect yourself from the "yes .. yes .. okay, no" dilemma
Why protect yourself? Why is this a dilemma? If you stop when asked, it's not an assault.
If you're worried about this, you're worried about false rape accusations, not some dilemma about people changing their mind. "if you're not checking for continued consent every few milliseconds" is an imagined problem taken to extreme. People who actually change their mind during sex will tell you about it and not treat it as assault.
Because withdrawn-consent can be used offensively. False rape accusation do happen and have resulted in many, many ruined lives - of people who legitimately and honestly thought they had consent, where the court later did not agree.
Ignorance of this fact doesn't support your argument.
I don't disagree false accusations happen. I'm saying that it's shitty to bring them up when a legitimate change of mind is discussed. Yet people keep popping up whatabouting this one, like someone's just waiting to accuse them of something.
False Rape Accusations are a form of abuse. Rape is also a form of abuse. They are not equivalent, but can certainly lead to the same order of life-destruction magnitude in either case.
Both of these things are relevant in the discussion of consensual sex, and I disagree with your attempt to elevate one position over the other.
Rape is bad because it negates a persons agency over themselves and denies them their basic human rights - false rape accusations also deny a person their basic agency and human rights.
Best way to avoid either case: just don't have sex, i.e. learn the value of abstinence.
Sure have. Never been raped, never been accused of it, and have a lot of happy, consensual sex all the time.
However, I will be teaching my teenage boys that "Yes is not always Yes, it can be changed", and that "No thanks, I'll abstain, even if you give me explicit consent" is always the safest approach.
Who's talking about after the fact? You can consent to sex, then change your mind in the course of things. Maybe you just stop wanting to have sex, maybe your partner starts going into territory you're uncomfortable with, doesn't really matter. An app where you give consent beforehand can't handle real life.
False accusations work just fine despite your abstinence. If the other person is lying about consent, what's stopping them from lying about the sex too?
No, I meant even not having sex (abstinence) doesn't 100% protect against accusations.
Of course, in practice people deal with certainly below absolute. But once you admit that, the argument for absolute abstinence loses some of its punch.
Perhaps the surveillance state might save the day. If the sequence of interactions is recorded a jury could review it and decide if any consent was given or given and subsequently withdrawn at any point :-)
If you get consent from your partner, have sex with them, and then your partner changes their mind about it afterwards - for any reason they determine under their own agency, what is to be done to avoid the danger of being falsely accused of not having gained consent, other than to simply abstain?
If consent can be retracted after the act, the act is not safe. So abstinence is the only answer.
And really, this shift towards abstinence is an appropriate social response.