- Apple is 50% of the US smartphone market, and what this means in factual terms is that they're the gateway to computing, communication, banking, and more for these folks.
- Apple doesn't allow side loading of apps. You have to go through their store with their rules.
- You have to pay Apple 15% of all commerce originated on your idea or platform.
- You have to integrate with Apple login and Apple payments, which reduces your relationship with your customer to a smidge.
- Apple cripples its web browser, encouraging app distribution of your software.
- Apple allows competitors to place ads on its App Store in your app's name or brand, making it an uphill battle to keep growing.
- Apple doesn't allow you to deploy at your own cadence. If you need an emergency bug fix, you're out of luck.
- Apple forces you to follow their app development guidelines. These are capracious moving targets and you're forced to follow on Apple's schedule, despite whatever costs and labor needs your business has.
- Apple can remove your app at any time for any reason with completely asymmetric power.
- Apple forces you to build on their hardware despite software being limitless.
- Apple frequently brings out competing apps.
Once a person is in the Apple ecosystem, it's very difficult to reach them without paying Apple somehow.
- On the flip side, Android has _88%_ of the global market share. Arguably (and quite clearly) the bigger gateway. By a country mile.
- What average user side loads apps? That would be like asking to sideload apps on your microwave -- it's just impractical and not the commonplace behavior. I understand this is HN, but still. Sideloading apps is a minor complaint for a minority: Google report recently showed 0.06 of users sideload apps, globally. Paltry.
- Both Apple AND Google have to pay 15% for all commerce originated on the idea or platform at the end of the day.
- If your idea of maximizing "relationship" involves maximizing the companies profits first, then I disagree with the premise. Having a partnership with Apple is a good thing. You'll be associated with quality build and security. If you want to go your own way, then do what, say, Patreon does or OnlyFans does and do your own thing. No need to have Apple or Google for that matter hold you back.
- If you don't like the Apple browser (Safari) you're more than welcome to use Firefox and Chrome if you'd like and make adjustments to make it the default browser.
- Apple is doing what Amazon did/does best...is this so bad for every business as a whole? If we can all do better, why not? This will lift up profits for _everyone_.
- "Deploying at your own cadence" could lead to security bedlam if improperly executed. Not to mention the deployment monitoring on Google/Android is quite outdated.
- I'm sorry, but you're developing for their phone. It's not public. It's not a non-profit. It's like developing for Nintendo Switch -- of course you have to follow their development guidelines, procedures and recommendations to reach the level of quality they need. It's a two-way street. You're entering into their territory. You're brash for assuming you can just walk in and do whatever you want.
- Of course they should be able to have that right especially if malevelont actors are in play, which they are en masse and global at times. They need this right to protect users.
- Again, I bring up Nintendo here, but they forced developers to develop on the Wii and Switch using their odd hardware and software. Was that a sin? I think no. Odd hardware is only odd and cumbersome if you can't handle the technological "challenge." Which some like Capcom were able to handle with ease.
- They should be allowed to expand on their own OS. Claiming they can't because it "competes" with other apps is just not true, frankly. I think of the recent medications app. Does what most other junk medication apps do in the app store but 100X. Now I don't have to pay $19.99 for a "good" app (which frankly, sucks) I can just use the app Apple has.
- Let them go into the 88% Android ecosystem. Apple is for those of us users who want it to work, cleanly without headache. If it requires a "Tax" and pain for up-and-comer-developers so be it. If you want a perfect product, expect the imperfect to get weeded out.
I only want the cream of the crop in the app store, and I'm an average user. I don't want spyware/malware/bloatware and I want that weeded out for me beforehand. I don't want to step into a jungle. I want order and I want quality. That's just how I see it.
> - What average user side loads apps? That would be like asking to sideload apps on your microwave -- it's just impractical and not the commonplace behavior. I understand this is HN, but still. Sideloading apps is a minor complaint for a minority: Google report recently showed 0.06 of users sideload apps, globally. Paltry.
Does it matter? The capability exists. I can and have downloaded F-Droid and can easily download open-source free-from-Google apps without ever interacting with the Play Store. That's impossible on iPhone. If side-loading doesn't matter, then why doesn't Apple just allow it? Why the big hoopla?
> - If you don't like the Apple browser (Safari) you're more than welcome to use Firefox and Chrome if you'd like and make adjustments to make it the default browser.
Except you can't. Apple forces you to use Safari even if you install Firefox, Chrome etc. It's just reskins, not the actual browser. Safari is the new IE. An old, aging, out-of-date browser existing only so Apple can force their users into the prison of the App Store.
> - They should be allowed to expand on their own OS. Claiming they can't because it "competes" with other apps is just not true, frankly. I think of the recent medications app. Does what most other junk medication apps do in the app store but 100X. Now I don't have to pay $19.99 for a "good" app (which frankly, sucks) I can just use the app Apple has.
In other words, the big mega-corp can destroy competition as long as you don't have to pay $20 and can keep feeding the beast. Apple has stolen the concepts, ideas of apps that are well-loved by consumers, pretending that it's just apps that suck is disingenuous. Apple is not some saviour coming in to create better apps. They're stealing from competition and forcing them out of business.
It's a trillion dollar business, they should not be allowed to constantly destroy perfectly fine businesses. It leads to a crappy, non-competitive market.
We're talking about America and how the DOJ needs to disrupt domestic corporate abuses.
> What average user side loads apps?
Kind of my point. Google makes it scary. Apple prevents it outright. In reality, everything should be distributed over the web.
> Both Apple AND Google have to pay 15% for all commerce originated
No they do not. They pay peanuts to maintain the biggest and most profitable walled gardens in the world. Adding little to the world while taxing the up and coming innovators.
> Apple is doing what Amazon did/does best
Amazon deserves the same treatment.
> could lead to security bedlam if improperly executed
This describes everything ever. Software isn't too dangerous to use.
> you're more than welcome to use Firefox and Chrome
Reskinned Safari. Woefully out of date with standards.
> Having a partnership with Apple is a good thing. You'll be associated with quality build and security.
I'll get billed margins that I need to pay my employees. I just want to write software, not pay the mafia boss that built an empire.
> you're developing for their phone
It's not their phone anymore - it's society's gateway to the Internet and ecommerce. The DOJ needs to catch up. Break up Apple and Google or put them into straightjackets.
> bring up Nintendo here
A kid toy, a sliver of the economy, replete with dozens of alternatives. You don't do banking, physical commerce, architectural design, or meet strangers to fuck with your Wii.
> I don't want to step into a jungle.
The world doesn't need kid gloves. Every time you step into a car you face death.
It's time to make competition from the bottom healthy again.
On the topic of whatever percentage of people are on Platform X and Y: I really wish devs would look at things in absolute terms sometimes
I used to be a huge Windows Phone fan. During its heyday, it wasn't far behind Android or iOS in features, and it was in a really sweet spot where it was almost as open as Android to hacking without being hideously primitive and janky like Android was at the time. (Talking ancient Android, before the anti-jank project) Windows Phone had something like 50+ million users. Nobody would port any apps to it though, even "apps" that were just tracking code bundled around a website.
It was so damn frustrating that companies would come out with apps for set top boxes and game consoles that had total install bases a fraction the size of the Windows Phone market, but they'd completely ignore that phone platform since it was a smaller percentage of the overall phone market. What was even more bizarre is that they'd usually launch on iOS first despite its tiny install base relative to Android at the time, since the execs personally liked iPhones better.
Somehow the path of every big business and VC required an "app" on iOS first, then eventually adding half-assed Android support, and not only did they not support other platforms, they'd actively block users from hacking together their own open source clients for linux, Windows Phone, etc.
- Apple doesn't allow side loading of apps. You have to go through their store with their rules.
- You have to pay Apple 15% of all commerce originated on your idea or platform.
- You have to integrate with Apple login and Apple payments, which reduces your relationship with your customer to a smidge.
- Apple cripples its web browser, encouraging app distribution of your software.
- Apple allows competitors to place ads on its App Store in your app's name or brand, making it an uphill battle to keep growing.
- Apple doesn't allow you to deploy at your own cadence. If you need an emergency bug fix, you're out of luck.
- Apple forces you to follow their app development guidelines. These are capracious moving targets and you're forced to follow on Apple's schedule, despite whatever costs and labor needs your business has.
- Apple can remove your app at any time for any reason with completely asymmetric power.
- Apple forces you to build on their hardware despite software being limitless.
- Apple frequently brings out competing apps.
Once a person is in the Apple ecosystem, it's very difficult to reach them without paying Apple somehow.