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I'll attempt to clarify.

    America is the first (and maybe only, ever?) major 
    imperial power that allows such open discussion of 
    its atrocities.
I did not claim that America was the first imperial power to allow public dissent. That, as I'm sure you'd agree, is manifestly untrue.

So it's unclear to me what point you're attempting to make by pointing out a single instance of prior public dissent in the British Empire.

Particularly since Swift's work of satire was not exactly a direct criticism of the British Empire, nor a catalogue of its atrocities.

If you do the minimum feasible amount of research and read the Wikipedia article, you will learn that it was largely a parody of other such popular contemporary treatises, a thing that is easy to miss in 2023 if you aren't familiar with the context in which "A Modest Proposal" was written.

Back to my original post... I certainly don't think America was the first to allow such dissent. I think it is the first to do so on such a scale.

(I also don't necessarily think America allows such dissent for entirely noble purposes. As has been often pointed out, legitimate criticism and evidence often gets lumped in with whackadoo fake conspiracy theories and is therefore discredited by default in the public's mind. The end result is a more effective form of suppression than could be achieved by direct totalitarian repression. The US government will let you talk about the MKUltra experiments or Guantanamo all day long because barely anybody will believe you, or care.)



The scale is an artifact of the ease of publication today. I agree that the speech allowed today is greater than ever before. Your point stands.

The US First Amendment is indeed unique, but it came from a tradition[1][2]. And it's not so long ago that US citizens were prosecuted for sedition. And this is not totally unique to the US or Britain[3][4].

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cato%27s_Letters

[2] - https://avalon.law.yale.edu/17th_century/england.asp

> That it is the right of the subjects to petition the king, and all commitments and prosecutions for such petitioning are illegal;

> That the freedom of speech and debates or proceedings in Parliament ought not to be impeached or questioned in any court or place out of Parliament;

[3] - https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/critics-of-empire-978085771177...

[4] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congo_Reform_Association

> In the mid-1890s Edmund Dene Morel was working for Elder Dempster as a shipping clerk based in Antwerp, when he noticed discrepancies between public and private accounts given for the import and export figures relating to shipping from the Congo.[5] Morel deduced from the steady export of firearms and cartridge, against the disproportionate mass imports in rubber, ivory and other lucrative commodities, that no commercial transaction was taking place.[6] He concluded that the use of force was the only explanation: the consistency of the exchange could only be supported by a state-led system of mass exploitation.[7] Resigning from his role in 1901, Morel turned to journalism to investigate and raise awareness about the activities of the Congo Free State authorities, establishing his own journal in early 1903 – the West African Mail.[8]


Thank you for the informative links!! I've got some reading to do....


I read the Congo Reform Association link a bit too fast. Morel was actually an Englishman who worked in a multinational corporation.


Maybe in some respects the US is more open about its atrocities than other nations, e.g Guantanamo bay and our prison rate

But we also not free to discuss secrets kept from us. And US is not lenient on whistleblower exposing secret lawbreaking and atrocities.




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