For sure. I think I'm reasonably well connected and could make a political nightmare for anyone who deported me illegally, but that's slim consolation if I'm trying urgently to learn the language of whatever prison I'm in.
Unless your name is nationally known, I doubt this is the case. It's not local people who are deporting you. There are numerous cases of well connected people beloved in their community getting deported. There are no consequences for the perpetrators.
That's the main reason its happening, there are no consequences for making mistakes. So they can ship you to a concentration camp and no one will know, because there won't be paperwork anywhere saying this happened, unless someone happened to be there and recorded you being abducted.
By the time someone might decide to check ICE records you could be in South Sudan already. No one is safe.
Could you? We STILL don't know the identities of everyone sent to CECOT. It's hard to make a political nightmare when no one knows where you are, or even that you were "arrested".
Easy debunk: ICE is a federal law enforcement agency. Entering or remaining in the country illegally is, by definition, illegal. ICE agents are law enforcement officers, not "deputized Proud Boys." Federal law enforceent agencies like ICE have recruitment and training processes that are well-established and documented.
There's no federal law requiring officers to give you their name or badge number. It's a myth they have to do so when asked, just like it's a myth cops have to tell you they're law enforcement when asked during a sting operation.
All they have to do is assert their authority, and they don't even have to do that on a particular timetable. If you don't like it, tell you legislator to do their job and change the law.
There was already a case of a copycat dressing in a mask and tactical gear and "asserting his authority". If they don't need to identify, then nobody needs to identify. And if they don't identify then they are nothing more than a masked gang.
I'll also add that masks are illegal to use during crimes to hide identity - which is exactly what these people are doing. They are committing crimes by abducting US citizens and they are blocking due process and they are exporting people to foreign 3rd countries. What they are doing is against the Constitution. We will track down and prosecute these people after this fascist regime is over, which is why they are masking and trying to hide their identity - they know what they are doing is illegal.
> There's no federal law requiring officers to give you their name or badge number
Well then since federal agencies are now abusing this letter of the law in complete bad faith and contributing to this disruption of the general peace, it sounds like it is up to state governors to tackle this epidemic of masked gangs of thugs running around and abducting people - order state and local law enforcement to interrupt any and all masked gang activity and arrest the perps (and order their national guards to deploy if additional force projection is necessary to restore law and order). If it turns out a given gang was acting under "legally valid" federal authority to carry out "legally valid" federal actions and therefore has immunity (and wasn't say a drug cartel hit squad emboldened by the general disorder), that can be sorted out and verified through due process in the courts. States owe no less to their citizens.
>ICE is breaking the law with zero evidence of that
Arresting US citizens without any cause is illegal, and that's exactly what they have been doing, and they will make up excuses to cover their ass. They are also arresting legitimate tourists, without justification.
"According to her attorney, Andrea Velez was released on bond after being detained by immigration enforcement agents on Tuesday and then charged with assaulting a federal officer." [0]
That's good cause for an arrest. Civil disobedience carries consequences.
It is fine to say there isn’t evidence for something. For some reason the poster decided to invite this challenge by calling it “easily debunked” instead. A debunking is specifically a claim that there’s evidence that the original claim was wrong.
This is just a form of gish galloping [0]. Like I alluded to, it's disappointing that discourse on HN is at a place where enough of the participants are supportive of this as long as it's happening to the "other team."
> During a typical Gish gallop, the galloper confronts an opponent with a rapid series of specious arguments, half-truths, misrepresentations and outright lies, making it impossible for the opponent to refute all of them within the format of the debate.
See also Brandolini's law [1] if this feels familiar:
> The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than that needed to produce it.
It is not any more effort to say “It is an unsubstantiated and unprovable rumor that ICE has deputized proud boys.” It is also a much more accurate reflection of the level of confidence.
If you call somebody’s claim “easily debunked,” that’s a proactive offer of counter evidence. It isn’t Gish gallop to accept that offer of counter evidence.
Anyway, where else is the conversation supposed to go? The post had the offer of an easy debunking and no other content.
This is not something that can be or should even need to be "debunked". It is the responsibility of the government to act in a way that engenders trust of the citizens. For example, not deploying roving gangs wearing masks and refusing to identify themselves while purporting to act with government authority. Surely you can see how this destroys the rule of law, regardless of whether those are 30 year career civil servants who just now happen to be wearing masks, or some newly-formed lynch mob.
In general, the government justifying itself to citizens is called leadership. This "government" does the exact opposite across the board, and compensates with divisive propaganda that nurtures loyal all-in extremist followers.
