Notice under “Managing dependency”, the focus is exclusively on technological solutions.
There is no technological solution to this. We have the equivalent of unlimited crack in everyone’s pocket 24/7 with no possible oversight over its use and no way to reel it back in. The genie has been out of the bottle for a while now.
Just like gluttony, there is no solution, only management strategies and they’re all very human.
Sensible education about these things starting at K1. Social and outreach programs for addicts. Etc
We actually don't know that there isn't a solution to gluttony, addiction, and other self-destructive and compulsive behaviors.
The brain is somewhat stupid and can be tricked by very primitive things, like bright lights. We might also be able to un-trick it, maybe with medication. That's kind of what were seeing with GLP-1 agonists.
We know how to cure addiction though, and its really low tech. People (and rats) with adequate social lives and decent living conditions are able to consistently overcome addiction. In fact, addiction has come to be understood as a coping mechanism for living in an unpleasant environment. Imo the issue with phones is really a symptom of our lack of leisure time, pleasant outside settings, and affordable third places.
I think a lot of people turn to phonecrack instead of their social lives because they think phonecrack is their social lives. They've been told it's good, it's community, it's social.
And maybe it was at one point. But it's not anymore. There are no social media sites left, only media sites.
It actually is, but creating these kinds of environments and promoting healthy social lives is extremely not profitable. We'd have to dramatically lower the cost of living for everyone and make huge investments in infrastructure and subsidize the creation of third places.
Idk what part of "make society affordable for everyone and ensure that everyone has access to adequate care and social support" sounds like an easy or reductive fix.
Maybe my use of the world "simple" is causing some hangups. This is obviously a prerequisite for curing addiction worldwide. Lacking support, care, and social ties is a strong indicator that an addict will relapse in any case. You can't even start treating the really pathological cases without a comprehensive healthy environment for everyone.
The summation of the problem is reductive and your fix won’t fix it, although there’s no doubt it would help. No one is claiming your solution is bad, on the contrary it’s the best solution, but to claim it would completely eliminate addiction is preposterous.
There is a new book by Owen Flanagan ”What is it like to be an addict”[0] where he goes through the phenomenon of addiction from many different angles and argues that rat park type findings are true but only give partial view to the problem. His view is that it is very multifaceted subject and can’t be understood or tackled with any one easy fix.
Idk what part of "make society affordable for everyone and ensure that everyone has access to adequate care and social support" sounds like an easy fix.
That’s a good goal and I think we should aim for that regardless if it fixes addiction. I would not call it easy though. And would it be world without addicts? There are plenty of well connected rich social happy folks who can’t handle simple molecules. Environment is part of the usage pattern but it’s not the only thing. That’s the books point I gather.
You have taken the point someone else made and run somewhere else with it, so I will reiterate it.
> People (and rats) with adequate social lives and decent living conditions are able to consistently overcome addiction
I don't think it's about riches, or power, or having friends. It is purely about how many stressors you have to deal with, how often and with how much reprieve you have available. More money can give more reprieve, it usually means more stressors too.
The more subtle point I guess is that it is not how much you have, it is the shape of your life and how each day feels.
Use the example of far northern countries. People who live in dark countries drink more, and they drink even more the darker it gets. The modern era says that the answer should be more mindfulness, more cognitive behavioural therapy, I think GP is saying we should be giving them sunlight which is clearly what they actually need. Substitute sunlight for whatever thing your locale is currently not managing well.
I recommend the book and the new research. It reflects on the rat park study and makes what I think are good arguments that addiction is not a simple thing we can fix only by fixing the enviroment even though it is part of it. OP was asking for evidence so I thought I’d chip in with a modern source. There are no socities that have solved addiction. Obviously it is a gnarly problem.
It’s a nuanced issue not a simple issue. Mental health is often involved but I guess your simple cure works for mental health too?
People read some articles about a few studies and not only form but propagate reductive takes with absolute certainty… It’s baffling to see people operate this way.
Of course there is, even if it's not for everyone. You can abandon the profit-seeking duopoly and embrace GNU/Linux on smartphones. No tracking, no invasive apps or notifications. Works for me (except HN).
It is not like 'unlimited crack' because that is a chemically addictive substance that bypasses any need for stimuli enjoyment and directly increases wanting. Multi-media screens do not and cannot do this. Can we agree on that? Science does. At the very least they have to initially be intrinsically rewarding. They are a very different kind of stimuli and pretending they are chemical drugs that immediately bypass perception and directly cause wanting is dangerous misinformation. I am not saying people don't have problems. But this is not at all an addiction like chemical addictions. Applying chemical addiction paradigms will lead to the same calls for use of government violence in regulation. An outcome far more damaging than the situation.
Ok, it's not crack. Not chemical, just social. It's like a hyper-optimized version of gambling. Slot machines in everyone's pockets. Or am I not allowed to make that comparison either, because the government regulates that too? Wouldn't want to accidentally call for government violence.
There is no technological solution to this. We have the equivalent of unlimited crack in everyone’s pocket 24/7 with no possible oversight over its use and no way to reel it back in. The genie has been out of the bottle for a while now.
Just like gluttony, there is no solution, only management strategies and they’re all very human.
Sensible education about these things starting at K1. Social and outreach programs for addicts. Etc