Detention is literally being used arbitrarily, before the decision is made to even determine the person is an alien. If something is uneccesary its usually being used as punishment.
>there would be still a detention to move him or her from the place where they were found to the bus or plane.
Whats wrong with a court order and a plane ticket? Other than nothing at all. (The usual response from the border brainrot is that either they need to be prevented from escaping, which they could have done earlier instead of choosing to remain a part of society. Then when that ones knocked down its as a "Deterrent" which is where we wrap back around to this being a punishment)
>What you wrote only makes a faint sense in assumption that detention is given as a punishment for immigration violations as same as prison term.
No I have not made that mistake at all.
>detention is a necessary part of removing an alien
Nope. No reason for it at all.
>which you could serve and come out as a legal alien.
Never said that at all. Just that theres no reason for someone to go into arbitrary detention before attending court/airport/border when they pose no risk to society. To do otherwise is a punishment.
>Detention is literally being used arbitrarily, before the decision is made to even determine the person is an alien. If something is uneccesary its usually being used as punishment.
It is not. There has to be a reason to believe the person is an illegal alien. In this article, for example, all detainees presented documentation of their illegal presence and identified themselves with photo ID.
>Whats wrong with a court order and a plane ticket?
Someone already broke the law and is in the country illegally. What are the reasons for them to listen and follow a court order? Also, the immigration being a civil matter, how do you even obtain such an order? Sue them and go through a trial? There are already laws that allow removal of these aliens so this looks just like some redittor's wish-list in lieu of knowing the law.
>Nope. No reason for it at all.
Yeah, it seems that you don't see the reason. Can't explain something to somebody who is unwilling to understand.
>It is not. There has to be a reason to believe the person is an illegal alien. In this article, for example, all detainees presented documentation of their illegal presence and identified themselves with photo ID.
So, give them a court order to board a flight? Like if they are willing to prove their illegal status why is detention needed?
>Someone already broke the law and is in the country illegally. What are the reasons for them to listen and follow a court order? Also, the immigration being a civil matter, how do you even obtain such an order? Sue them and go through a trial? There are already laws that allow removal of these aliens so this looks just like some redittor's wish-list in lieu of knowing the law.
Yeah its a civil matter, so there shouldn't be detention. Great point.
Also, have you considered that the arbitrary detention is the reason someone might refuse to attend?
>how do you even obtain such an order?
Whoever is sending ICE to detain people raises the case on behalf of the government?
>What are the reasons for them to listen and follow a court order?
Why are they renting a house, paying taxes and following every other law? Just off the top of my head, criminal contempt, due to violation of the court order, would prevent almost any attempt at legal reentry?
>There are already laws that allow removal of these aliens so this looks just like some redittor's wish-list in lieu of knowing the law.
Invoking reddit is the most reddit thing you can do.
>There are already laws that permit the removal of aliens
Yeah, but the system is clearly deranged and we are discussing that obvious derangement.
>Yeah, it seems that you don't see the reason. Can't explain something to somebody who is unwilling to understand.
You are doing the classic "I will outline the rules as justification for the rules". You have done nothing to establish your position from first principles. What you have written might be enough to convince yourself, but you haven't provided anything like a justification. "Oh they might try and escape" well ignoring a court order is actually justification to lock someone up. There's no justification for the assumption that someone might commit a crime, even if we were to agree that a misdemeanor makes someones soul black and marked as a criminal forever and a day (Which we dont agree, thats another weird seppoism).
>So, give them a court order to board a flight? Like if they are willing to prove their illegal status why is detention needed?
You either don't read what I wrote or it does not get through. These people were already given the order to leave the country by a date and they disobeyed it. Now they are in the removal proceedings, which consists of detaining them and transporting them out of the country. Detention is needed because to remove somebody from the country you need to detain them so you could transport them over the border. As I said, we don't have a teleport ray which we could point and make them to disappear and reappear in their home.
>Yeah its a civil matter, so there shouldn't be detention. Great point.
Why there should not be detention? I don't see how it follows. Are you unaware of civil detention/arrest? Can't you just read the Wikipedia or anything other than reddit/twitter before making absurd statements?
>Also, have you considered that the arbitrary detention is the reason someone might refuse to attend?
Attend what? I am sure they have many reasons to stay in my country so what?
>Whoever is sending ICE to detain people raises the case on behalf of the government?
Case of what? Of applying the existing law? "Your Honor, the law tells us to deport these aliens and we are able to do that but, just for shit and giggles, we want you to give them an order to leave and see what happens. Yes, we do respect the law and the court. No, we are not drunk or high. Just do this, please!"
> Just off the top of my head, criminal contempt, due to violation of the court order, would prevent almost any attempt at legal reentry?
And? There literally tens of millions of illegal immigrants who don't care about any of this.
>Invoking reddit is the most reddit thing you can do.
I trust you, I don't use reddit and can only indirectly observe redditors on HN.
>Yeah, but the system is clearly deranged and we are discussing that obvious derangement.
Okay. Here is my argument: the system is not deranged. I win.
>there would be still a detention to move him or her from the place where they were found to the bus or plane.
Whats wrong with a court order and a plane ticket? Other than nothing at all. (The usual response from the border brainrot is that either they need to be prevented from escaping, which they could have done earlier instead of choosing to remain a part of society. Then when that ones knocked down its as a "Deterrent" which is where we wrap back around to this being a punishment)
>What you wrote only makes a faint sense in assumption that detention is given as a punishment for immigration violations as same as prison term.
No I have not made that mistake at all.
>detention is a necessary part of removing an alien
Nope. No reason for it at all.
>which you could serve and come out as a legal alien.
Never said that at all. Just that theres no reason for someone to go into arbitrary detention before attending court/airport/border when they pose no risk to society. To do otherwise is a punishment.